|
Post by HoudiniDerek on Jan 25, 2006 11:09:33 GMT -5
I know that many people do not like HEROINE so when they see the above phrase where you pit someone like Holly against Pam...the result is obvious: Pam kicks booty. I agree with that, but I am curious as to why people chose Holly to begin with. Noting the success of the show previously, why not find someone closer to how Pam is, if not getting Pam for the part? With that in mind, I was thinking we could brainstorm ideas about what made Pam and Holly so different and why they chose Holly over Pam. (I know most people say that Connie was doing HOTEL and that she could not commit, but pretend that is not the case and let's do a comparative analysis, shall we?)
|
|
|
Post by HoudiniDerek on Jan 25, 2006 23:07:59 GMT -5
I think they were trying to find the ultimate female who was just like Ralph but independent and stubborn enough to be like Bill...and I think they molded someone who would never have existed. Therefore, she really became her own character foil...and then involving her foster daughter was great, but it made it a little convenient and there was no way she could really help. I think that Holly was a great idea until they tried to make her carry the series on her own.
One thing I hated about Pam...even in the first season...the zest for creature comforts...in BEST DESK SCENARIO she was all about a plush office to go with her new job, rather than relishing in the job based on her merit. A very shallow moment for Pam...did not happen often, but enough to make you realize that HEROINE had to have more of the Ralph ideals.
|
|
|
Post by missdavidson on Jan 25, 2006 23:50:01 GMT -5
In the beginning, Pam was supposed to be, according to Bill as well as myself, "somewhat of a feminist, I bet" (she took offense to Bill calling her a dame in MY HEROES HAVE ALWAYS BEEN COWBOYS, citing a "sexist slur") and you would think that she would have taken more pride in shattering the glass ceiling rather than having that office in BEST DESK SCENARIO.
And yes, Holly was supposed to have the same ideals as Ralph. She wanted to help the world, save the whales (AND SHE DID!) and make a difference with children, empowering them and helping them to believe they could do anything. I don't know how or where or why, but somehow instead of looking smart , "egghead", etc. she came off as ditzy. I don't know if it was the writing or the acting. Somehow I'd like to give Mary Ellen Stewart the benefit of the doubt, but having seen her in furniture store commercials (Rooms To Go, I know it's a regional type store so some of you may not know what I'm talking about), anyway, those commercials bug me. They bugged me before last February, before I saw HEROINE again. After that, they just became painful. . .don't mean to go OT. It makes you wonder, had the show gone forward and Holly acquire a love interest, if there would have been a male in a Pam-type of role. I highly doubt that they could have pulled it off.
|
|
|
Post by HoudiniDerek on Jan 26, 2006 14:52:40 GMT -5
True, I don't think it would have worked to have a male Pam. I also don't think it would have worked for her to have a permanent love interest...although the comedy would have been increased by the situations she might get into with the suit while on a date.
|
|
|
Post by HoudiniDerek on Jan 27, 2006 16:08:43 GMT -5
I think that by the end of the series, Pam was in no way able to be given the suit, even if it were an option. Her character had changed too much. In the opening moments of HEROINE, we see a lot of Holly being someone who could be respected with the Ralph ideals, but also having the Pam sentiment of being empowered. Granted, that immediately changed after getting the suit, but I think that Holly was a good compromise for people watching to see a mixture of Pam and Ralph getting the suit. Then, they ruined it with the little girl being brought in, but I guess they did not want to lose her like they lost Kevin.
|
|
|
Post by missdavidson on Jan 27, 2006 23:49:39 GMT -5
Kevin? Kevin who?
|
|
|
Post by HoudiniDerek on Jan 30, 2006 15:04:31 GMT -5
Exactly...they only referred to him once or twice after the first season I think...and yet, that was SUCH an integral part of the pilot and other episodes like RESEDA ROSE...sad. I think that this made Holly more likeable in the fact that she was TRYING to keep her child involved.
|
|
|
Post by missdavidson on Jan 31, 2006 0:00:58 GMT -5
Yes but after two seasons of no Kevin, and then a year and a half between the show leaving the air and the "finale/spin-off pilot", I think it was a little different by then and it just made it seem awkward.
|
|
|
Post by HoudiniDerek on Jan 31, 2006 17:10:28 GMT -5
True...and there is not much that a little kid could do to help out...unless there are a lot of kindergartens in the new series that need saving.
|
|
|
Post by missdavidson on Feb 1, 2006 0:13:15 GMT -5
And I mean, how is a kid going to deal with it if she finds out her foster/adoptive mother is now a superhero. . ."WOW, coooool, can you catch the ice cream truck for me? Beat up the kid that picks on me at school?"
|
|
|
Post by HoudiniDerek on Feb 1, 2006 0:14:32 GMT -5
Exactly...the nice thing about Kevin was that they had to keep it from him and that he might start telling people his dad wears underwear...Holly's brat liked it.
Of course, I wonder how Pam and Ralph would have responded if they got the suit back when they had kids of their own. Might have been an angle NBC was after with Holly...more family-oriented programming.
|
|
|
Post by missdavidson on Feb 2, 2006 0:09:52 GMT -5
Yeah but no one wanted that. . .it was too annoying.
|
|
|
Post by HoudiniDerek on Feb 2, 2006 10:59:42 GMT -5
No one wanted a more family-oriented show? I disagree...NBC put it on Sunday night which was forced to have educational programming for children and I think they were trying to adapt HEROINE to that. I think this is one reason it failed.
It failed for another because it lost some of the comedic drama that the original had...this was more goofy.
|
|
|
Post by missdavidson on Feb 4, 2006 1:00:18 GMT -5
What I meant was that no one wanted Holly, apparently she was so goofy that even NBC didn't like her.
|
|
|
Post by HoudiniDerek on Feb 6, 2006 13:31:02 GMT -5
I think that NBC probably liked her enough...they made a pilot after all. I think they did not want to put in the effort to have a quality show, which is why they cut HEROINE from a two-hour pilot to a one-hour. I think the viewers hated her because they were used to the old gang and she was not in the mentality of them...more like Starlette from THE HIT CAR. I think most people wanted Pam in the suit.
|
|