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Post by HoudiniDerek on Aug 12, 2006 15:02:11 GMT -5
This episode might be the absolute WORST episode of the entire series...especially regarding Pam. I always forget about it until I watch it...out of sight, out of mind. And if you all don't agree, you are MORONS! I will let others say why they like or dislike it first, but I thought I would preface this thread with my thoughts first.
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Post by Ms_Lilacs on Aug 12, 2006 17:52:18 GMT -5
All right then, I'll be the first MORON to reply. This is one of my most favorite Pam episodes actually. I think it addresses Pams thoughts and feelings about not fitting into the 'team' The Green Guys gave the suit to Ralph and made Maxwell his partner, and Pam kinda feels left out. But then by then she knows she has an important place with them. Actually think I've watch this episode and 'Wizards and Warlocks' most outta the 3rd season. Can't really think of an episode I don't like, actually I'm kinda upset that there weren't more...ended too soon. *sniff*
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Aug 12, 2006 18:48:36 GMT -5
I just HATE how they made HER the bad guy here...so she wants a normal life sometime with a normal Ralph without Uncle Bill. I understand. And then he LIED to her about it and SHE is portrayed as the bad guy!!!!
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Post by missdavidson on Aug 12, 2006 21:52:14 GMT -5
Yeah but I feel that her concern with the suit should have come earlier, like, in the second season. She even said in HEROES: "They gave it to you. I wish it hadn't happened, but it did. And as much as I'd like to eighty-six that suit. . .I just don't think it's that easy." This leads me to believe that she realized and understood that Ralph had an obligation to fulfill.
Ralph doesn't get off the hook so easily. I do believe he should've told good ol' Uncle Bill to ship out immediately and stuck with it. Even heroes need some time off, especially to be with their best gal. But he gave in to peer pressure. Where's the Public Service Announcement in that, man?
And Bill? Oh NO he didn't. If I had been Pam there wouldn't have been a CSI that could find a trace of Bill Maxwell anywhere. He would be that dead. As a matter of fact, I'd have just killed him dead and let the greenguys take him away. Voila. Job done.
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Post by melmac on Aug 13, 2006 20:52:07 GMT -5
You know, I always wondered why Pam didn't belt the guy in the end while waiting (and hoping) Ralph would return, then say one of the best speeches as far as the two of them. I think the frustration of having to share him with Bill really got on her nerves, but I do agree that they should've not been fooled by Bill. Another reason to deck him. And... Ralph should've been slugged himself for the appearance that he was fooling around with another woman. (I bet they didn't however, because they didn't want Pam to be hurt, though that'd been a good reason for her to turn her back on him for the moment.) What I do like is the proposal. Sure, Ralph doesn't do it on one knee, but it was a very charming one and made the point... he wanted them to be a team. Her clothes also fit in very well for the setting. That's the only thing bugging me with Ralph in the sweats... I'd be suspicious if my boyfriend was wearing sweats when I'm wearing a warm weather tennis suit.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Aug 27, 2006 23:15:56 GMT -5
Pam, while looking lovely in this episode in all her outfits but the first one, got screwed over in the writing process. She acted it every bit as good as she could, but she was screwed over. Let me tell you how. She got stood up by Ralph again. It didn't look like tackling those five bank robbers took longer than five minutes. How was he SOOO late that he missed the party by HOURS? It just shows that Pam is not important. Just like he never calls her to tell her what's going on or that he will be late. (Coincidentally, that was a nice new apartment she was in...think she got tired of the house she had in THE BEST DESK SCENARIO?). Pam is super jealous again...of the suit...of Bill...of the girl at the resort they go too. She just never gets to have any other real emotions except pity for herself and jealousy it seems. This makes her seem very shallow and I am sure we could think of endless episodes that show only THIS side of her and not her good ones overall. Can you blame her for not believing Ralph about the cabin story? He SOUNDED like he was lying and with Bill there, it looked bad. In Ralph's defense, he tried to get her to call about the story, but she was too mad...she should have taken a little time to think before blowing that idea off I think. Then on the island, Pam is doing work. She had to take off last minute and go with Ralph...she chose to spend time with him, but she had to do her work too. Then later when Ralph says HE has work to do, she says it is different. That is both true and false. It is true that they are different because Ralph's JOB is NOT the suit...it is teaching...and her job is being a lawyer. Had he brought schoolwork, she would not have said anything. It is false because Ralph does have this second responsibility and she knows it...she is trying to get out of the fact that she is guilty too of not focusing on just the vacation. As for vacation, Pam is suddenly forgetful here. Ralph has gone on vacation a few times without taking the suit along for personal gain or for Bill. Both Caribbean episodes were vacations where Ralph was not expecting to use the suit. THE LOST DIABLO was a similar concept. As was IT'S ALL DOWNHILL FROM HERE. She was written so one dimensional that she forgot how hard Ralph tried at times. She was especially too naive about the tennis game...oh, Ralph, can suddenly break rackets with his serve can he? I HATE how Ralph lied to Pam continuously and everyone, including him, seems to think that is okay. He lied about what he was doing in his room when she came in about the tennis match...about how he won the game for them...about where he was going after the game...everything was one big lie. And Pam was right to call of the relationship because of that. If he will lie to her about something like that...and do it continuously, then he does not deserve her. As for the Bunny scene, why didn't Ralph CLOSE the door? Had Pam been there would they had wanted to get it on where the whole island could watch? Second, Ralph claims that he was not mauling her neck. If you look closely, when Bunny raises up as Pam walks in, Ralph raises up with mouth open TO her neck. The liar. (And why didn't Ralph ever go to Pam's room? He got back from his bike ride with Bill and was running the beach in his sweats...Why not go to Pam's room and see if she is there? What a GREAT place to start, huh?). Of course, some of the fight scenes were awful between these two. After they fight and Bill gets captured, Pam is trying to help and Ralph is very juvenile saying that she shouldn't be concerned...even though SHE leads Ralph to Alejandro AND pulls Alejandro away so Ralph could get the shirt to holograph. On the fight scene where she tells him it's over, Ralph acts HIGH AND MIGHTY...and it's HIS fault they are breaking up because he can't keep from LYING! Of course, Pam's job is to get the cops AGAIN! She doesn't do anything else except confide in Bill about how weak-willed she is, which is not true. Ralph gives up more times than anyone else in regards to the suit and she is made the patsy...the person to take the blame for the whole fight! At least Bill tries to console her...he ends up being the peace maker. Ralph came back and didn't even NOTICE Pam until Bill motioned for him to go get her...the dip. Even Bill makes it obvious to Pam that the world owes the "three of them" a debt of gratitude. Even though he has been looking out for his job, he knows how important Pam is to the team. Pam played the final scene well, even though it was written horribly with her taking all the blame and Ralph giving that stupid and sappy proposal...not ONCE admitting that he was wrong and they would work on it together. She would have been better off without that SCHMUCK! That is why I hate this episode.
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Post by melmac on Aug 28, 2006 1:08:41 GMT -5
I like Ralph more, you like Pam more... 'nuff said. Ralph could've been stronger, Pam could've been stronger. Pam should've also knocked Ralph out... with or without the suit in this case. I think she'd be mad enough to do it and that'd knock some sense into Ralph that Pam was his girl. And, if they did it properly, it'd been the best fight of the series, even topping Bill's and Ralph's before the latter's shot in "Divorce..." I disagree about the kissing bit with him trying to maul the other girl's neck. That's just different POV's. It's definitely not the best Pam story, but then again... I still think with the right stories, she'd only gotten stronger as the season progressed. She did succeed some with "Live at Eleven." They did drop the ball as far as what Pam could truly do though in that third season... I will concede that much.
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Post by missdavidson on Sept 5, 2006 23:21:33 GMT -5
(Coincidentally, that was a nice new apartment she was in...think she got tired of the house she had in THE BEST DESK SCENARIO?). She had the apartment in CLASSICAL GAS first. Same apartment in THIS IS THE ONE. . .
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Sept 7, 2006 16:09:31 GMT -5
(Coincidentally, that was a nice new apartment she was in...think she got tired of the house she had in THE BEST DESK SCENARIO?). She had the apartment in CLASSICAL GAS first. Same apartment in THIS IS THE ONE. . . I don't see how since Pam would not have an attic THAT large in an apartment. I think that is still her house.
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Post by melmac on Sept 7, 2006 19:49:34 GMT -5
She had the apartment in CLASSICAL GAS first. Same apartment in THIS IS THE ONE. . . I don't see how since Pam would not have an attic THAT large in an apartment. I think that is still her house. You'd be surprised actually. I had an attic that was fairly large when I lived in an apartment complex back in Hereford. They were duplexes, so it's possible Pam did live in one like that. Now, I do agree there usually isn't an attic like it, but I've never lived in LA, so I don't know.
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Post by missdavidson on Sept 7, 2006 22:30:09 GMT -5
She had the apartment in CLASSICAL GAS first. Same apartment in THIS IS THE ONE. . . I don't see how since Pam would not have an attic THAT large in an apartment. I think that is still her house. Okay I'm an idiot. I don't know what I'm talking about. It looks the same in CG as it does in TITO. . .
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Sept 8, 2006 19:33:49 GMT -5
I don't see how since Pam would not have an attic THAT large in an apartment. I think that is still her house. Okay I'm an idiot. I don't know what I'm talking about. It looks the same in CG as it does in TITO. . . Yes, I agree that you are. Actually, it doesn't. Take a look at her living room based on her front door. The floorplans don't match up. Plus, in THE BEST DESK SCENARIO, we get an outside shot of her house...and it seems that it might fit the floorplan from CLASSICAL GAS.
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Post by melmac on Sept 8, 2006 20:22:54 GMT -5
I think one of the funniest things I've noticed is that every time I see Pam in the tennis outfit, the more I think she could've been Isis in the series of the same name. The actress who played her was good, but Connie would've been better. (It was a strong woman character series too, just like Wonder Woman, just that she was teamed up with Captain Marvel at times in "Shazaam!" second season.) And, the biggest thing I think that makes Pam look dumb is the infamous "Gee, a hole just got punched through the racket. Never thought Ralph had such a great serve." It might've been plausible with a broken handle, but the catgut, no. (Then again, I played volleyball, so I might be wrong anyway.) Third, the more I think about it, it'd been funny and neat to see Pam actually deck Ralph after seeing him kiss the other gal. Would've shown her feminist/strong woman side, which started to diminish in the second season I noticed.
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Post by missdavidson on Sept 22, 2006 21:46:05 GMT -5
Pam was too smart not to know that Ralph had the suit on when the racket was broken. I don't like the way the writers wrote her in this episode (can we thank Babs Greyhosky for this one? I do think she was behind it. . .I'll have to check). She and Ralph both were acting childish.
AND hey, to be fair to Ralph (hush HD) he did not kiss that girl. She kissed him.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Sept 23, 2006 10:30:40 GMT -5
He kissed back. He could have stopped her...I DO believe he had the SUIT on.
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